Andy Turner says:
Hi
belinda says:
Hi
Andy Turner says:
I'm wondering what I need to do to remove dependency on Version 0.1 of Toy Model...
belinda says:
What do you mean "remove depdendency"?
Andy Turner says:
I extended some classes, but they no longer exist in Version 0.3.0...
Andy Turner says:
So the population initialisation is still dependent on those classes from Version0.1 
belinda says:
Mmm, yes, it is causing problems, isn't it? Do you think if you take over the initial household formation would be better?
belinda says:
I mentioned to Mark that maybe I should focus more on the dynamic simulation and the applications...
Andy Turner says:
Not sure how best to tidy up... Is there no household formation We can just include the class
Andy Turner says:
Oops
Andy Turner says:
hit return
Andy Turner says:
Still thinking
belinda says:
You've lost me now...
Andy Turner says:
Did you start again completely with household formation?
belinda says:
As you noticed, there are some difference between the 0.3 and 0.1 version.
Andy Turner says:
Yeh  should I dig in and try to figure out myself?
belinda says:
I don't know what you'll need for the opimisation of the data and if I have to change the code again, there might be more  problem for you...
Andy Turner says:
That's what I worry...
Andy Turner says:
Would be good to stabilise the API for some things...
belinda says:
So maybe it is better to hand over the initial household formation to you and you can give me a dataset with people already in the households. That way you have more control on it...
Andy Turner says:
OK, so this currently is not in 0.3.0?
belinda says:
Currently I've been assigning people into household, but I think you need more control on this process than I do, as I don't need to know the changes you made for the initial household formation...
belinda says:
Version 0.3.0 still does the initial household formation, but I'm thinking for the long run, maybe it's better to hand over it to you...
Andy Turner says:
OK, so should I learn the 0.3.0 way, or stick with the 0.1 way? I think 0.1 way now works much nicer since I got rid of communal estabishment populations, though I never was sure I was using a good optimisation fitness function based on the fields and methods in t he 0.1 classes.
belinda says:
If you are taking the first bit over and throw me a dataset with people in household and I'll reconstruct my system and leave the initialisation process out. So my system will start with load in a dataset from your system and do the dynamic simulation directly. You are welcome to reuse any of my old code for the initialisation, but you don't have to...
belinda says:
loading in, sorry...
Andy Turner says:
We're still exploring what is best... let me continue...
belinda says:
Of course, I assume that you are still categorise people into children, elderly, spouses, adult dependents etc.
Andy Turner says:
If we go this way, the output I was originally providing should change...
Andy Turner says:
Yes, but we have communal establishement populations too now...
Andy Turner says:
So I think we need a new variable or coding for household ID....
Andy Turner says:
The population model is going to need to move people ina and out of communal establishements
Andy Turner says:
They are like another type of household
Andy Turner says:
Non-family
belinda says:
Yes, it would be people that are already in the household: everyone has a household ID, not just HRP. A special code for communal establishment should work.
Andy Turner says:
Right...
Andy Turner says:
To begin with we are not going to be very concerned with communal establishements. Key will be moving householders in and out of them... Moving between different types etc is detail not to worry about yet...
belinda says:
Yes, even if we have to consider them, just give them a different type of household id, then we can work out that they are not actually in a family...
Andy Turner says:
In an Area there can be more than one Communal Establishement (CE). I don't think it is important to distinguish at this stage... So how about a textual code CER for Communal Establishment Resident?
Andy Turner says:
Maybe you prefer a number, say -9 for database reasons? 
belinda says:
Yes, number would be easier...
Andy Turner says:

belinda says:
I'm thinking that this might help you speed up your optimisation...
belinda says:
Or easier...
Andy Turner says:
I can explain this a bit if you like...
Andy Turner says:
But I also want to know something...
belinda says:
OK, I'm listening...
Andy Turner says:
What I want to know is:
Andy Turner says:
I was passing a dataset to you with blanks in household ID column
Andy Turner says:
I thought you were going to process the file and add numbers to the blanks and produce a new dataset
belinda says:
You can still pass me a csv file with one more attribute: types of agent(or something) and everyone's household ID...
Andy Turner says:
If this is done then I just need to tweek a few things to provide this dataset... 
belinda says:
That way you don't have to do the DB bit...
Andy Turner says:
Without us having to spit out a nasty horrible huge csv file and read it in again and spit it out again...
belinda says:
OK, we can have a think and maybe talk to Mark later?
Andy Turner says:
Sorry, lost me a bit there...
belinda says:
I meant that we could think a bit more about this then we can talk to Mark that we'll do this...
Andy Turner says:
OK, I still don't know what to do next though...
Andy Turner says:
It can wait if you want to get on...
Andy Turner says:
Plenty things to do ...
belinda says:
If you agree that  it would work better if you have total control on initialisation, then we probably need to suggest it to Mark and I'll leave that bit to you.
belinda says:
When I come back from holiday, maybe, I'll reconstruct my system consists of dynamic simulation and application models..
Andy Turner says:
I'm having difficulty explaining I think...
Andy Turner says:
In some way we need to try to integrate by calling methods and using classes not dumping and loading data...
belinda says:
Yes, some of them. But we don't want our systems to be too tightly coupled, as we are doing our PhDs sperately and people already raised the issue of sperating the work from the PhD etc etc.
belinda says:
They want me to present something that is completely my work. So somewhere we need to make a clear cut- well, almost...
Andy Turner says:
OK, I realise it's a bit tricky... the separation between MoSeS and PhD... hmmm... Anyway, before you go on holiday I would like to have some idea of how to move forward with MoSeS... I want to use your household formation work, but I don't know if I should be developing on 0.1 or 0.3.0 of your code... I had begun developing on 0.1 and am unclear how to switch or if I should be looking to 
Andy Turner says:
do that even
Andy Turner says:
Currently I am thinking it is easier to continue with 0.1 and somehow figure out how to set household ID for those that didn't have it based on the formation...
belinda says:
Yes, that is what I mean. Those code is serving the purposes for my system really, but they are not that important to my system as in your system. As long as I have a dataset with different kinds of people in the household, the simulation will work.
Andy Turner says:
Then push out a new data set for Leeds and rerun for the UK
Andy Turner says:
OK I think we're getting somewhere.
Andy Turner says:
One last thing...
belinda says:
Probably you just need one more column for the types of people and use a different series of number for those that are not in the current type of household.
Andy Turner says:
Did you process the data to add Household ID to those that did not have one?
belinda says:
Yes, during the current initialisation process.
Andy Turner says:
0.1 or 0.3.0?
belinda says:
Both, whenever I found a spouse, a child depdent etc. for a HRP, their household ID will be set to the same as the HRP
Andy Turner says:
And then did you write out the data?
belinda says:
To the database.
Andy Turner says:
Not in 0.1 there was no database...
belinda says:
But you can change the code and spit it out as a file if you like.
Andy Turner says:
Anyway, I think I have the solution
belinda says:
Good.
Andy Turner says:
Thanks
Andy Turner says:

belinda says:
You are welcome.
Andy Turner says:
Sorry, it's a bit difficult explaining things sometimes without arm waiving
belinda says:
Shall I send Mark an e-mail about this
belinda says:
I actually think our talk went well...
Andy Turner says:
For the next data all I do is mark those that are in communal establishements. That's all right?
belinda says:
Yes, that's fine. 
Andy Turner says:
Great
belinda says:
Do you want to get on with assigning people into household at this stage?
belinda says:
Or you prefer wait until Mark and me come back to UK?
Andy Turner says:
I see the next big problem being households with more than one family...
Andy Turner says:
What changes have there been to the assignement from 0.1 to 0.3.0?
Andy Turner says:
I mean:
Andy Turner says:
Running the data through both will give the same assignements right?
belinda says:
En. Maybe we need the FRP? Nothing just the structure...
Andy Turner says:
Just 0.3.0 is using a database....
belinda says:
Yes.
Andy Turner says:

belinda says:
I found there are some useful attributes like FRP, generation indicator etc. They might be useful to generate the social network.
belinda says:
But of course, we do not need to consider these yet...
Andy Turner says:
Shall we deal with multiple family households later or in this iteration?  
Andy Turner says:
Oh right
Andy Turner says:
No I think we wait until those population geographers complain!
belinda says:
Probably later, what do you think?
Andy Turner says:
Yeh
Andy Turner says:
But we know the problem is coming. 
Andy Turner says:
It is easier for you to just deal with a special case of -9 meaning in a communal establishment right?
Andy Turner says:
If I do the household assignement and write out the ID's it will be more work for you or not?
belinda says:
Yes, I don't mind solving the problem now, but there might be more issues we need to take into account.
belinda says:
A number is definitely easier than text ID and  what I need to do is to re-structure my system and make a couple of adjustment for this change- not really a problem..
Andy Turner says:
So, I'll focus on producing a new dataset for Leeds as per -9 for CE resident. Before you go on holiday, I wanty to run this through the dynamic model. While you are on holiday I will be thinking about how to do all this for the UK in parallel 
belinda says:
So we are talking about a dataset where everyone has a household ID and type of agent?
Andy Turner says:
That's different to what I was about to do...
Andy Turner says:
But I can do that...
Andy Turner says:
How would you like me to code Type of Agent?
Andy Turner says:
class.getName() or something
belinda says:
Type of Agent is just HRP, spouse, child dependent, elderly dependent and adult dependent.
Andy Turner says:
So as text then?
belinda says:
OK
belinda says:
Or we can use code 1, 2, 3...
Andy Turner says:
I'll get on with it... er... it's up to you...
Andy Turner says:
class.getName() would have been good, but the classes are not the same in0.1 and 0.3.0 AFAIK 
belinda says:
Then numbers, if you don't mind. Can you also send me a note specifying which means what?
belinda says:
Just the code...
Andy Turner says:
OK, I'll get on with it and let you know. Still not 100% happy about using old version but nevermind... We'll resolve all versioning license and PhD separation issues in due course.
Andy Turner says:
Bye for now 
Andy Turner says:
Oh
Andy Turner says:
Can I add this to my blog? and thr
belinda says:
Since you are taking over, you can change whatever you do not like with the code., 
belinda says:
Of course it's OK to add this to your blog. Bye for now if that's OK with you.
Andy Turner says:
Ok bye thanks Belinda